trying2fly Show full post »
bogusbandit56
trying2fly wrote:
   I only have KF2 but I am going to change that.  I was afraid that I might be getting too heavy so I left the bottom flat.  I am using a 1800 Kvp motor from my first Hawksky and it really does fly fast with a 5x5 prop.  I would like a peppier motor like a 2200 but again I don't want to make it a flying brick.  I will change my tip fins first......then  KF4.....then consider a bigger motor.  Actually I don't expect to get that far with this little plane but like Jeff...I have to try!!LOL              Ps  the little motor is barely able to take off but once it gets airborne it is quite the little speedster.   Really tough to see when the little thing whistles by sometimes.  I guess I just need more airtime on this little plane..   chas


Chas,
I`m pretty sure the KF4 will be the biggest improvement you can make at this point.
This is the best wing I have ever flown and funnily enough I designed it myself.
It has fairly small verticals but most importantly it has KF4 airfoil. I did build one with a proper airfoil section but it didn`t fly on rails like this one does.
The version with the airfoil section would balloon under power and felt a little vague compared to the KF4.
It has a turnigy 2826 2200kva motor but flies with a low powered 1300mHa 3s 30c battery.
It flies fast and very slow with no bad tendencies.
Wot, no Depron?
Quote 2 0
trying2fly
solentlife wrote:
I have a couple of wings ... one own design ... other is the Teksumo .... 

The Tek is the better of the two.

What I found ... (this is for my wings ... mainly the Teksumo )

1. Controls need a lot of expo to calm the flight down without losing the extreme manoeuvres capable of
2. Elevons need a moderate amount of reflex at neutral (mine are about 4 - 5 degrees up). The more CoG moves forward - the greater the reflex
3. Tip Side Force Generators (the vertical fins) ... my Tek has one with large chunk missing I keep meaning to replace - makes no difference to flight at all...  both are at 90 deg and do not extend past elevon hinge line. They are about 10mm below but majority above wing ...
4. At high speed - elevons can start to flex and then she will tuck nose down as the reflex is pushed down
5. Smaller higher rpm prop better to avoid large prop torque on launching

Here's a short video to put a smile on the face .... 

solentlife wrote:
As good as it gets!!!!!  chas


The full video :

Quote 0 0
trying2fly


Chas,
I`m pretty sure the KF4 will be the biggest improvement you can make at this point.
This is the best wing I have ever flown and funnily enough I designed it myself.
It has fairly small verticals but most importantly it has KF4 airfoil. I did build one with a proper airfoil section but it didn`t fly on rails like this one does.
The version with the airfoil section would balloon under power and felt a little vague compared to the KF4.
It has a turnigy 2826 2200kva motor but flies with a low powered 1300mHa 3s 30c battery.
It flies fast and very slow with no bad tendencies.
  Ian..your wing is much to pretty for me to fly!!  Although I know you have wing tips it is hard to tell the size from your photo.  It is truly a unique futuristic design and really sleek.  I am certain is is fast with that set up!!  I agree with you about the KF4!!!  By the way, how did you make those gentle curves that are so appealing...did you heat the foam and bend?  Did you soak the foam?  chas
Quote 1 0
bogusbandit56
trying2fly wrote:
  Ian..your wing is much to pretty for me to fly!!  Although I know you have wing tips it is hard to tell the size from your photo.  It is truly a unique futuristic design and really sleek.  I am certain is is fast with that set up!!  I agree with you about the KF4!!!  By the way, how did you make those gentle curves that are so appealing...did you heat the foam and bend?  Did you soak the foam?  chas


Thanks Chas.
The wing is a simple design based on a 75 year old German Gotha P.60, but I put a fuselage on it for streamlining.
I used 6 mm Depron aero for the build and it has some flex. The fuselage is just three strips cut to shape and sanded, nothing fancy. If you took the paper of $tree foam you would be able to make some very curvy pieces.
The whole plane is more a happy accident than planned design🙂
If you remove the paper from the KF steps on your $tree foam you will save a lot of weight.
FliteTest have quite a few flying wing designs which are built using dollartree foam, may be you could check one of those out.
Wot, no Depron?
Quote 1 0
trying2fly


Thanks Chas.
The wing is a simple design based on a 75 year old German Gotha P.60, but I put a fuselage on it for streamlining.
I used 6 mm Depron aero for the build and it has some flex. The fuselage is just three strips cut to shape and sanded, nothing fancy. If you took the paper of $tree foam you would be able to make some very curvy pieces.
The whole plane is more a happy accident than planned design🙂
If you remove the paper from the KF steps on your $tree foam you will save a lot of weight.
FliteTest have quite a few flying wing designs which are built using dollartree foam, may be you could check one of those out.
You are loaded with information that I would never have dreamed of!!  Why am I running from additional weight when I can remove the paper from dollar tree foam  for my KF4.  Also what a clever idea of using the zip ties midway on the control rods for rigidity midway!!(he showed it in the Flitetest video you sent)!!!  Thank you so much...you have provided a plethora of info on wings....thanx!  chas     Your take on the Gotha P-60 was brilliant...bet that took some time out of your schedule!!!Lol 
Quote 1 0
bogusbandit56
trying2fly wrote:
You are loaded with information that I would never have dreamed of!!  Why am I running from additional weight when I can remove the paper from dollar tree foam  for my KF4.  Also what a clever idea of using the zip ties midway on the control rods for rigidity midway!!(he showed it in the Flitetest video you sent)!!!  Thank you so much...you have provided a plethora of info on wings....thanx!  chas     Your take on the Gotha P-60 was brilliant...bet that took some time out of your schedule!!!Lol 

Hi Chas,
I have used zip ties as control rod supports and they work very well. Removing the paper was not my idea, I`m just passing on info that may be of help🙂
The P.60 build was probably a couple of days to think out and build.
Wot, no Depron?
Quote 1 0
solentlife
One aspect of wings that I rarely read about ... balance in not only 'length' but width also.

My Teksumo - I fashioned a small metal U out of thin control rod ... measured the desired CoG position and then glued the U as a hook point to suspend the wing from. That meant I then had it there to adjust battery etc. to get perfect balance. The lateral balance across the span needed a small nail driven into one wing tip ... the difference may not have been major - but it was noticeable.

[Teksumo%202826%202200kv%207x5%202200%203S%204_zps3nqfxtzc]

The wings are far more susceptible to lateral inbalance than most other models.

Its a trick I learnt from my Thermal Glider days many years ago !
I'll fly anything if I can launch it ! Youtube : solentlifeuk
Quote 3 0
bogusbandit56
solentlife wrote:
One aspect of wings that I rarely read about ... balance in not only 'length' but width also.

My Teksumo - I fashioned a small metal U out of thin control rod ... measured the desired CoG position and then glued the U as a hook point to suspend the wing from. That meant I then had it there to adjust battery etc. to get perfect balance. The lateral balance across the span needed a small nail driven into one wing tip ... the difference may not have been major - but it was noticeable.

[Teksumo%202826%202200kv%207x5%202200%203S%204_zps3nqfxtzc]

The wings are far more susceptible to lateral inbalance than most other models.

Its a trick I learnt from my Thermal Glider days many years ago !


Good idea🙂
I usually balance my wings over a dowel or on a foamy nail a pin in the nose and hold the spinner and the nail and see which way it falls.
Wot, no Depron?
Quote 3 0
solentlife
The beauty of the hook point I have - you hang the model hands free ... allowing you to adjust for all directions of inbalance.

I have CoG machines and I used to do the lateral pivot bit ... but they need separate actions. This puts them all into one easy to use method.

With Fixed Wing ... I have used similar for models with wing top or bottom - hook U is fixed with tape ... but for mid wings - its not so suitable. 
I'll fly anything if I can launch it ! Youtube : solentlifeuk
Quote 1 0
solentlife
Just passing on .... 

Took all of about 2 mins  ... in fact mixing the epoxy and putting hook into the foam took longer than making it !! 
I'll fly anything if I can launch it ! Youtube : solentlifeuk
Quote 1 0
bogusbandit56
solentlife wrote:
The beauty of the hook point I have - you hang the model hands free ... allowing you to adjust for all directions of inbalance.

I have CoG machines and I used to do the lateral pivot bit ... but they need separate actions. This puts them all into one easy to use method.

With Fixed Wing ... I have used similar for models with wing top or bottom - hook U is fixed with tape ... but for mid wings - its not so suitable. 

I used to use that method on my free flight competition models to balance them. I stuck a pin the the fuse and hung it from sewing thread.
For normal flying RC, I am lazy and use the ailerons to trim, but for large gliders I balance the wing.
Wot, no Depron?
Quote 1 0
Mozella
My FT Mini Arrow is a real pussy cat.  It works well in all reasonable weather conditions and isn't too fussy about CG, especially considering it's so small.  I bought the FT kit.  When I opened it, I realized that it was so simple I decided to scratch build out of DT foam board using just the plans.  The kit is still on my shelf because I wanted to save it for the second version, assuming I would soon crash version one.  Version one is still scratch free and flying just fine after countless flights, so the kit remains on the shelf.   It just doesn't want to crash, unlike most of my other models in spite of performing several inadvertent touch-and-goes (actually a tickle-and-go) when a low pass got a little bit too low. 

I stripped the paper and replaced it with packing tape (weight about the same).  I use the FrSky stabilized receiver S6R which has three modes, Off, Stabilized, and Wings Level.  I launch in the wings level mode "Frisbee Style" with my right hand while holding the TX and throttling up with my left.  I just toss it into the air without paying much attention to the attitude.  Immediately it goes into wings level mode and goes into a gentile climb giving me plenty of time to get my thumbs on the sticks.  I then turn off wings level mode and get on with flying.  This is a simple way to avoid those all-too-common crashes during launch.  It's fool proof and works no matter how bad your toss.  Plus it's safe with very little danger of having flesh meet propeller.

If anyone doesn't have a wing and is interested in an easy-to-build model which is easy to fly too, consider building the Arrow from plans.  This is the perfect model for those who use a motorcycle for basic transportation. 
_DSC4410.jpg 
Quote 1 0