Reaper
I have a brushless 2050Kv motor from Hobby King. A model C-20. Last week I treed the plane it was on, and it started getting hot after that. Tonight I was going to fly, but when I throttled up, the prop stopped spinning and the motor made a loud squealing noise. The motor would run up to about half throttle, but anything above that, the prop stopped and the motor squealed. I checked the prop adapter, it was tight. I also checked the set screw on the bell flange to the shaft. Also tight. After a few tries the motor started working if I throttled up very slowly, but if I goosed it, it stopped spinning and squealed. Whats up with that?
A good landing is one you can walk away from... a great landing is one you can re-use the plane. My youtube channel:http://youtube.com/user/0269Reaper
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Jbirky
Bad bearings?
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papabearflying
If it is the bearings, doubtful, you could try putting a drop of oil.
Never give up on something you can´t go a day without thinking about!
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LukeWarm
Disassemble the motor and clean it (bearings and all). This is a good time to check the tolerances for wear and maladjustments, and any other problems the motor might have.. The earlier you find and fix problems, the longer you will get to enjoy that motor. When you clean it, do not let cleaning fluid or spray propellant get on the windings or magnets; you do not want to dissolve any of the insolation or glue. Lightly re-lubricate the bearings after you clean them.
I clean the motor with compressed air and flush the bearings with WD-40 (while I turn them) .
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squishy
It could actually be the ESC...
"Education is not about filling buckets; it is lighting fires." W.B. Yeats

http://www.youtube.com/user/squishy654
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Reaper
Quote:
Disassemble the motor and clean it (bearings and all). This is a good time to check the tolerances for wear and maladjustments, and any other problems the motor might have.. The earlier you find and fix problems, the longer you will get to enjoy that motor. When you clean it, do not let cleaning fluid or spray propellant get on the windings or magnets; you do not want to dissolve any of the insolation or glue. Lightly re-lubricate the bearings after you clean them.
I clean the motor with compressed air and flush the bearings with WD-40 (while I turn them) .
I took the bell off and cleaned it and used dielectric grease on all contact points, but I will completely disassemble this time and clean and lubricate again. It's a cheap motor anyway, it was only $8.79, but it's small and lightweight, and with a 5x5 prop, it works well, so, I'll try once more to fix it.
A good landing is one you can walk away from... a great landing is one you can re-use the plane. My youtube channel:http://youtube.com/user/0269Reaper
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Reaper
Quote:
It could actually be the ESC...
How so? I didn't even consider that.
A good landing is one you can walk away from... a great landing is one you can re-use the plane. My youtube channel:http://youtube.com/user/0269Reaper
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squishy
it is what controls the bahavior of the motor, the motor is just a coil and some magnets...replace the ESC and test...I bet it's the ESC, I have seen this problem before...also re-calibrate the ESC if you haven't already
"Education is not about filling buckets; it is lighting fires." W.B. Yeats

http://www.youtube.com/user/squishy654
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Reaper
Quote:
it is what controls the bahavior of the motor, the motor is just a coil and some magnets...replace the ESC and test...I bet it's the ESC, I have seen this problem before...also re-calibrate the ESC if you haven't already
The ESC is from Hobby King. It's called a red brick. The only options it has is brake on or off, timing, and battery LVC on or off. It was a cheapy too, like 10 bucks I think. Both motor and ESC have always worked great untill the tree incident las week.
A good landing is one you can walk away from... a great landing is one you can re-use the plane. My youtube channel:http://youtube.com/user/0269Reaper
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LukeWarm
Quote:
it is what controls the bahavior of the motor, the motor is just a coil and some magnets...replace the ESC and test...I bet it's the ESC, I have seen this problem before...also re-calibrate the ESC if you haven't already


GraysonHobby said:
Im not sure if this has been suggested, but program your ESC to 'high timing'
Youll get more RPMs out of it, its harder on the equipment, but it will be faster and a bit more powerful then low or mid timing
thanks. Basil
Any time I run into a statement like this, I do the research. I have heard pilots complain about their motors cutting out in flight, I have just found that the ESC's timing being set incorrectly will cause this. I looked in several ESC manuals. They are provided below so you can develop your own opinion. I think the first one is the best. Most say; unless your having problems, leave the timing on the defalt setting (auto).


Timing mode
ESC manual #1
This ESC has a very fast CPU so that you can use Hi-timing for almost all the motors in the
market. The Hi-timing will milk out more power from the power system but the back side is
lower efficiency. For 90% of the motors you use, the ESC’s auto timing mode will be perfect in
efficiency consideration. If you discover that a particular motor is not running smoothly or not
performing well, you may change the timing and try to find a better fit for that specific motor.

ESC manual #2
This menu selects which timing mode you need. This is a bit complex, it changes the timing
advance of your motor. For 2-4 pole motors, you need 2 degrees. 5-9 pole motors need 7
degrees. Anything more needs 15 or 30 degrees. This option barely affects performance, and
you can leave it safely alone if you are at all unsure.

ESC manual #3
“Advanced Multi Timing System - AMTS”: This parameter is only available for brushless motors. There are many differences among structures and parameters of different brushless motors, so a fixed (high or low) timing ESC is not ideal for all brushless motors. It is necessary to make the timing value programmable. Please select the most suitable timing value according to the brand and wind of the motor you are using. Generally, higher timing values brings out higher power output, but at the expense of excess motor heat. Generally the faster the motor (lower turns, or higher Kv) the less tolerant it is to high timing advance, and the quicker it may overheat.
Please note that the “timing” value will be available for both sensored and sensorless brushless motors.

Forum post
2-5 degrees for 2 pole motors (Hacker and other 2 pole)
10 degrees for 4 pole motors (Aveox, Astro) (Maximum RPM on Hacker motors)
18 degrees for 6 pole motors (Phasor, Plettenberg, Mega) (Maximum RPM for Aveox and Astro)
30 degrees for multi-pole motors (most outrunners) (AXi, Kohler some Astro) (Maximum RPM for Phasor, Plettenberg, Mega)

Pulse frequency
This menu controls how long the ESC pulses power to the motor for. It is really meant for
performance tweaking and can be totally ignored in 99% of cases. For very high speed
inrunners, a higher frequency might give better results.

GraysonHobby said:
The Timing is the pulse or signal sent by the ESC to the motor. Its basically a "on / off" signal. The ESC sends the opposite polarity to the motor at the exact time as the magnet passes the bell. This causes the 2 magnet and the bell to repel and is what causes the motor to spin.

For most speed junkies, we want the timing as high as possible so the motor is spinning as fast as possible. The one problem with Super High timing, is that the pulse signal is sent too soon which actually will put the motor in "reverse". The most common side effect is that awful screeching you hear. THIS IS BAD

So the most scientific way to set your timing is to keep advancing until it starts to screech, then decrease by one setting.

Do you need to advance the timing...in most cases NO.
Could you achieve a 'faster' motor while increasing the timing..Possible
Is it best to leave it in auto. Beginners YES, guys with experience and play around with this setting

FYI. This works with all motors not just parkjets, and actually, the larger 40 size motors, we have to decrease the timing since the larger motors spin much slower then then the parkJets. Hope this helps.
Thanks
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Reaper
Quote:
GraysonHobby said:
Im not sure if this has been suggested, but program your ESC to 'high timing'
Youll get more RPMs out of it, its harder on the equipment, but it will be faster and a bit more powerful then low or mid timing
thanks. Basil

Any time I run into a statement like this, I do the research. I have heard pilots complain about their motors cutting out in flight, I have just found that the ESC's timing being set incorrectly will cause this. I looked in several ESC manuals. They are provided below so you can develop your own opinion. I think the first one is the best. Most say; unless your having problems, leave the timing on the defalt setting (auto).


Timing mode
ESC manual #1
This ESC has a very fast CPU so that you can use Hi-timing for almost all the motors in the
market. The Hi-timing will milk out more power from the power system but the back side is
lower efficiency. For 90% of the motors you use, the ESC’s auto timing mode will be perfect in
efficiency consideration. If you discover that a particular motor is not running smoothly or not
performing well, you may change the timing and try to find a better fit for that specific motor.

ESC manual #2
This menu selects which timing mode you need. This is a bit complex, it changes the timing
advance of your motor. For 2-4 pole motors, you need 2 degrees. 5-9 pole motors need 7
degrees. Anything more needs 15 or 30 degrees. This option barely affects performance, and
you can leave it safely alone if you are at all unsure.

ESC manual #3
“Advanced Multi Timing System - AMTS”: This parameter is only available for brushless motors. There are many differences among structures and parameters of different brushless motors, so a fixed (high or low) timing ESC is not ideal for all brushless motors. It is necessary to make the timing value programmable. Please select the most suitable timing value according to the brand and wind of the motor you are using. Generally, higher timing values brings out higher power output, but at the expense of excess motor heat. Generally the faster the motor (lower turns, or higher Kv) the less tolerant it is to high timing advance, and the quicker it may overheat.
Please note that the “timing” value will be available for both sensored and sensorless brushless motors.

Forum post
2-5 degrees for 2 pole motors (Hacker and other 2 pole)
10 degrees for 4 pole motors (Aveox, Astro) (Maximum RPM on Hacker motors)
18 degrees for 6 pole motors (Phasor, Plettenberg, Mega) (Maximum RPM for Aveox and Astro)
30 degrees for multi-pole motors (most outrunners) (AXi, Kohler some Astro) (Maximum RPM for Phasor, Plettenberg, Mega)

Pulse frequency
This menu controls how long the ESC pulses power to the motor for. It is really meant for
performance tweaking and can be totally ignored in 99% of cases. For very high speed
inrunners, a higher frequency might give better results.

GraysonHobby said:
The Timing is the pulse or signal sent by the ESC to the motor. Its basically a "on / off" signal. The ESC sends the opposite polarity to the motor at the exact time as the magnet passes the bell. This causes the 2 magnet and the bell to repel and is what causes the motor to spin.

For most speed junkies, we want the timing as high as possible so the motor is spinning as fast as possible. The one problem with Super High timing, is that the pulse signal is sent too soon which actually will put the motor in "reverse". The most common side effect is that awful screeching you hear. THIS IS BAD

So the most scientific way to set your timing is to keep advancing until it starts to screech, then decrease by one setting.

Do you need to advance the timing...in most cases NO.
Could you achieve a 'faster' motor while increasing the timing..Possible
Is it best to leave it in auto. Beginners YES, guys with experience and play around with this setting

FYI. This works with all motors not just parkjets, and actually, the larger 40 size motors, we have to decrease the timing since the larger motors spin much slower then then the parkJets. Hope this helps.
ThanksAso. So my timing may be too fast. I'll try to set it to auto.
A good landing is one you can walk away from... a great landing is one you can re-use the plane. My youtube channel:http://youtube.com/user/0269Reaper
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Grey
Timing is one of those things where "right" usually serves you better than "the fastest setting".

I've blown up 2 motors and an ESC testing out how timing effects them (admittedly I did what websites said was bad on purpose just to see what would happen, how accurate the info was and exactly what I could get away with).

If you have an auto setting, 9 times out of 10 it's the best thing to use. It works out how to run the motor in an efficient manner balancing power with efficiency to give you a balanced experience.

Otherwise your ESC manual usually suggests a setting based on the number of poles in the motor. Read the specs for your motor and use that. Using lower settings usually result in less power than you should have and often in a motor and ESC coming back hot. Using too high of a setting usually means the motor will underperform under half throttle, it will use more amps and it will come back hotter.

Normally, unless you pay bucketloads for an ESC, you don't get to play with things like pulse duration and frequency. The 3 basic settings (low, medium, high) normally set pulse duration and frequency to be suitable to the number of poles in question.

Play with timing ONLY if you are preapred to kill motors and ESCs. Using timing set too low or high results in lost efficiency and a hotter motor. If it gets too hot it will seize up on you and there's every chance it will take the ESC with it. If it takes the ESC with it? It can take the inbuilt BEC with it. If it takes the BEC with it? Congrats, you are now the proud owner of a rather expensive, but uniquely designed, foam jigsaw puzzle.
May all your crashes be spectacular!
Planes: RCPowers X-31EB V1, F-18EB V1, F-35EB V1, F-22EB V1 x 2, T-50 V1, EzFly Bomber (e-foamy.com), FunFighter 600mm F-4u Corsair, Mig 29 V2, Mig 29 v1.
Currently working on: Mig 29 v3, F-22 v3 To Do list: Rodrigo's OV10 Bronco; I swear I will get there one day .
Grey's Youtube Channel. - Grey's RC plane blog (it's new and a bit bare!)
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fitzfitz
I know this is old, but it describes perfectly the problem I've been having off and on for the past week. As that is also the first week I've tried rc it took me a long time to figure out the problem. In case anyone else has these symptoms...
At least in my case, the seemingly very tight prop saver wasn't. It seemed tight when I checked, only the motor would work great then suddenly lose all power. Prop would spin but no thrust. I'd change battery to a full freshly charged one and same problem. Nothing even warm other than the motor, which got just a tiny bit warm.

Then I reached to take off the prop and burn the crap out of my finger on the prop saver. Luckily I hadn't run it long enough for the heat to transfer and fry the bearings - at least not right away. The prop and prop saver were just loose enough to spin on the shaft under load. Carved a little groove in the shaft as it did.

I guess I need to do two things: get a new shaft since this one might snap (only a tiny groove, but know knows how the metal really is?) and file a flat on each side of the shaft for the set screws to lock on.

I did have squeeling but it really wasn't that loud and the bearings seemed totally fine when I took the motor apart. I didn't know enough to realize that the sound was bad, thought it was possibly just the whine of the motor.
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