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bogusbandit56
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Once you understand the kk2 board, the sky is the limit. Here is one I built to pass the time exploring the P and I numbers. Why?, in the shift of P1 to P2, you can set a % of controls(depends on wind speed) so you can hover in the wind. Need the practice for the next project I am doing.

[ATTACH=full]55825[/ATTACH]

If you have $175, you can get the miniture job.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=5&v=nqKDzHnejq4


Looking for something different, I was going to do one with Peter's setup (4 motors) until I ran across one even better.

It is the BI-COPTER VTOL WHERE THERE ARE ONLY 2 MOTOR'S TO CONTROL ROLL, PITCH AND YAW in liftoff and forward flight. That means the CG has to under the line of of the motors at all times. Quite an engineering feat.

Another neat feature of the kk2 is that you can use a 4 channel radio and hook up an kk2 8 channel output of either servos or motors. Worth exploring!!!!!

Thank you this information will be very useful when I get back to building a larger version of the Flying Pancake for verticle take off as the manual attempt was a disaster
I have bought a small version of the KK2 board from Banggood for just under £12.00 and a couple more KK2 hard cases from Hobby King for just under £4.00 each, as I have the programmer for the hard case they come cheap.
I`m already thinking of wrapping some depron wings and fuselage around a T-copter frame to make a VTOL aircraft. I figure on running the rear motor as a pusher that swivels down and two counter rotating motors that swivel up on the wings.
Wot, no Depron?
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bogusbandit56
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Looks like a pipe dream

Can you not get end caps of the same pipe material to attach the motors to?

I have solved the problem of mounting the motors.
I had some washable kids paints hanging around and decided to use the caps to make the mounts.
After fitting the motors I discovered that the screwed neck of the bottle fits tightly on the waste pipe.
I cut 4 short nipples to go into the bottle necks to connect to the frame of the quad.
I will post some pics later. It`s a bit of a long winded way to mount the motors but it does utilize stuff knocking around the house plus the bottle neck and nipples lock the motor screws in without using loctite(which I don`t have).
Wot, no Depron?
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bogusbandit56
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Orientation is a difficulty with T and Y quads but due to the servo on tail mount they are also much more agile and aerobatic...

The easiest one among the 3 would be the V-tail/A-tail. I built one a while ago with rear motors mount at 40 degree angle. However, one drawback with V-tail/A-tail is that the power from rear motor's efficiency is low due to mounting at an angle but they are a lot of fun to fly and very easy when it comes to orientation.


Malukk, the V-tail strikes me as being easier to set up (No Servo) and more responsive on the Yaw. Is this the case?
Wot, no Depron?
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Wildthing
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I have solved the problem of mounting the motors.
I had some washable kids paints hanging around and decided to use the caps to make the mounts.
After fitting the motors I discovered that the screwed neck of the bottle fits tightly on the waste pipe.
I cut 4 short nipples to go into the bottle necks to connect to the frame of the quad.
I will post some pics later. It`s a bit of a long winded way to mount the motors but it does utilize stuff knocking around the house plus the bottle neck and nipples lock the motor screws in without using loctite(which I don`t have).

Looks like it will work like a charm. Are you going to notch it a bit so you can run the wires inside the tubing?
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bogusbandit56
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Looks like it will work like a charm. Are you going to notch it a bit so you can run the wires inside the tubing?

I`m drilling holes to route the wires thru the pipe work, but now I have to wait for the KK2 to arrive as I have taken the motors out of the boxes and didn`t fit the handed prop mounts and now they are mixed up. I have to run the motors up to find which way they revolve before I can solder the motors. This is a down side of routing the wires thru the pipe.
Having said that the weather has turned British with wind clouds and rain, I`m not complaning as we needed some rain as the field`s and countryside is beginning to look like Spain.
Wot, no Depron?
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Wildthing
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I`m drilling holes to route the wires thru the pipe work, but now I have to wait for the KK2 to arrive as I have taken the motors out of the boxes and didn`t fit the handed prop mounts and now they are mixed up. I have to run the motors up to find which way the revolve before I can solder the motors. This is a down side of routing the wires thru the pipe.
Having said that the weather has turned British with wind clouds and rain, I`m not complaning as we needed some rain as the field and countryside is beginning to look like Spain.

If they are directional motors you would think the collet threads would be reversed also.
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Wildthing
I see 4 wires coming out of the motor, what kind are they?
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bogusbandit56
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If they are directional motors you would think the collet threads would be reversed also.

Yeah, they would have been if I had put the bloody prop adapters on as I took them out of the box
The motors are plain shaft that come with dedicated prop adapter in the box.
Wot, no Depron?
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bogusbandit56
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I see 4 wires coming out of the motor, what kind are they?

Plastic coated copper.
Just kidding. The motors have built in ESC`s so 2 power wires black and red and two that go to the KK2 board Ground and signal.
Wot, no Depron?
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KK
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Malukk, the V-tail strikes me as being easier to set up (No Servo) and more responsive on the Yaw. Is this the case?

I found that you need to be close to accurate with the mounting angle for both tail motors - as long as you do that, you should be good for V-tail. Setup wise, hardware setup could be straight forward for V-tail however, tuning it can get tricky, but this is also me doing all this a few years ago and we have come long ways I believe.

On the other hand, I find tricopter to be an easier setup with software/tuning plus I did not find tail motor with servo setup necessarily to be that difficult either.

When it comes to yaw responsiveness, tricopter is still the best! I look at it this way:

Tricopter is very agile and aerobatic and responsive compared to quads. V-tail copters are somewhere in between the two. I do remember me having to do a lot more tuning for getting good yawing without banking... Quads are great for yawing since all motors are flat and it relies on torque roll. With tricopter it's obviously the servo and a little bit of torque roll of front motors. However, with V-tail having tail motors mounted at an angle, it needs to rely both on torque roll from front motors and controlling power/torque roll from the tail motors which can get tricky.

Flying wise, V-tails are forgiving once dialed in and great for orientation for line of sight flying!
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Wildthing
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Yeah, they would have been if I had put the bloody prop adapters on as I took them out of the box
The motors are plain shaft that come with dedicated prop adapter in the box.

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bogusbandit56
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I found that you need to be close to accurate with the mounting angle for both tail motors - as long as you do that, you should be good for V-tail. Setup wise, hardware setup could be straight forward for V-tail however, tuning it can get tricky, but this is also me doing all this a few years ago and we have come long ways I believe.

On the other hand, I find tricopter to be an easier setup with software/tuning plus I did not find tail motor with servo setup necessarily to be that difficult either.

When it comes to yaw responsiveness, tricopter is still the best! I look at it this way:

Tricopter is very agile and aerobatic and responsive compared to quads. V-tail copters are somewhere in between the two. I do remember me having to do a lot more tuning for getting good yawing without banking... Quads are great for yawing since all motors are flat and it relies on torque roll. With tricopter it's obviously the servo and a little bit of torque roll of front motors. However, with V-tail having tail motors mounted at an angle, it needs to rely both on torque roll from front motors and controlling power/torque roll from the tail motors which can get tricky.

Flying wise, V-tails are forgiving once dialed in and great for orientation for line of sight flying!

ThanksMalukk
After spending a few minutes with the Ycopter yesterday I can see I have a long way to go. I didn`t make things easy by trying to fly it in my Dad`s small back yard after I had done the gardening.
Wot, no Depron?
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thunder
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You can`t put your noggin in a gas cooker and turn on the gas with the door open unless you have an antique cooker, the sensor will not allow it unfortunately. Even then natural gas is not poisonous
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whatmovesyou
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Thank you this information will be very useful when I get back to building a larger version of the Flying Pancake for verticle take off as the manual attempt was a disaster
I have bought a small version of the KK2 board from Banggood for just under £12.00 and a couple more KK2 hard cases from Hobby King for just under £4.00 each, as I have the programmer for the hard case they come cheap.
I`m already thinking of wrapping some depron wings and fuselage around a T-copter frame to make a VTOL aircraft. I figure on running the rear motor as a pusher that swivels down and two counter rotating motors that swivel up on the wings.


Sounds very interesting. Try to get a couple of projects under your belt getting to understand the KK2 abilities before the pancake.

This is my latest using aero version which requires 3 axis control in hover, transition and forward flight. Handles the wind and even does acrobatics. Designer gives little info(I agree with him) and he says you should be able to do it yourself when you understand the board.

It has been said, "The life of a VTOL is short lived" and I will add it could do damage if it oscillates wildly in hover. They have 10 x 3.8 props. Notice one prop up, the other down. Motor mount is on metal gear servo. Blew out plastic gear when rotating.






P1010087.JPG 
I like to design and fly unique planes.
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bogusbandit56
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Sounds very interesting. Try to get a couple of projects under your belt getting to understand the KK2 abilities before the pancake.

This is my latest using aero version which requires 3 axis control in hover, transition and forward flight. Handles the wind and even does acrobatics. Designer gives little info(I agree with him) and he says you should be able to do it yourself when you understand the board.

It has been said, "The life of a VTOL is short lived" and I will add it could do damage if it oscillates wildly in hover. They have 10 x 3.8 props. Notice one prop up, the other down. Motor mount is on metal gear servo. Blew out plastic gear when rotating.






[ATTACH=full]55852[/ATTACH]

So a rear motor is not necessary on this model?
I think I will leave the VTOL`s to you and other`s more knowledgable
I need to learn a heck of a lot before I attempt one.
Wot, no Depron?
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