e3_Scott Show full post »
Flybyknight22
Quote:
I will second that, my go to thread.

This new toy I have has a built in Dyno and I have been doing some “street testing”.

A4EA0481-97D8-494F-8B55-5A8AB3EE5E1C.jpeg 

It runs on “MoJo Oil”.
I may need to send you and Scott a couple cans to sprinkle on those motor bearings you’re running on 4S

DF059656-7427-4BAD-858D-1C7BC5E1CDD0.jpeg 
And on the 8th day God said: "Go NAVY",.. and it was good! Pray like everything depends on God. Prepare like everything depends on you.
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e3_Scott
Hi Everyone -

@Wildthing and @Flybyknight22, thanks for the kind words, glad this thread has been helpful to you

In the last couple days, I have received a bunch of goodies in the mail from Banggood, so more testing to be done over the coming days/weeks between flying and other spring/summer activities
2018-05-18 13.27.47.jpg 
I received the last two quad racing motors that I wanted to test, the BrotherHobby EngineerX 2307 2700 kv https://www.banggood.com/Brotherhobby-EngineerX-2307-1700KV-2500KV-2700KV-4-5S-Brushless-Motor-for-RC-Drone-p-1266599.html?rmmds=mywishlist and the EMAX LS2206 2700 kv https://www.banggood.com/EMAX-LS2206-Lite-Spec-2206-2300KV-2550KV-2700KV-CW-Thread-FPV-Racing-Brushless-Motor-p-1204499.html?rmmds=mywishlist. It is kind of cool as I have been corresponding with EngineerX about this motor and the input he had with BrotherHobby in it's design. It is one of the "chunkiest" quad motors I will test at 2307 size, but looks like it might have some real potential on 3 and 4S. Here is EngineerX's test video of it as well.
2018-05-18 13.28.13.jpg 

The EMAX LS2206 2700 is at the other end of the spectrum being a bit lighter but having potential for some good power.
2018-05-18 13.28.36.jpg 
Here is another of EngineerX's test videos of this motor.


I also received some 5" props from Banggood to test on a few different motors on 4S
DALPROP 5045BN props https://www.banggood.com/2-Pairs-DALPROP-5045-Bullnose-PC-Propeller-CW-CCW-For-QAV250-ZMR250-Racer-250-Falcon-250-280-p-1056217.html?rmmds=myorder&cur_warehouse=CN

Gemfan 5045 BN props https://www.banggood.com/4PCS-Bullnose-5045-2-Blade-Propellers-2CW2CCW-For-250-280-310-Frame-Kits-p-985839.html?rmmds=myorder

and

KingKong 5040 props https://www.banggood.com/10-Pairs-KINGKONG-5040-Propellers-For-QAV250-p-1000415.html?rmmds=myorder&stayold=1&cur_warehouse=CN

Hopefully I will be able to find the right prop/motor/ESC combo to push this baby past the 100 mph mark on 4S


More to follow in the future, I'm also waiting on some 5" props from HobbyKing and some KingKong 6040 props https://www.banggood.com/10-Pairs-KINGKONG-6040-Propellers-CW-CCW-For-QAV250-RC-Multirotors-p-988179.html?rmmds=myorder&cur_warehouse=CN from Banggood that EngineerX seems to be getting some good numbers with on 3S on many of the quad motors he has tested.

Thanks again for the kind words and support, gents

Cheers,

Scott
Park Jet noise...the "other" sound of freedom😎
#ParkJetnoise #ParkJetpilot
Quote 2 0
Flybyknight22
Quote:
Hi Everyone -

@Wildthing and @Flybyknight22, thanks for the kind words, glad this thread has been helpful to you

In the last couple days, I have received a bunch of goodies in the mail from Banggood, so more testing to be done over the coming days/weeks between flying and other spring/summer activities
[ATTACH=full]55134[/ATTACH]
I received the last two quad racing motors that I wanted to test, the BrotherHobby EngineerX 2307 2700 kv https://www.banggood.com/Brotherhobby-EngineerX-2307-1700KV-2500KV-2700KV-4-5S-Brushless-Motor-for-RC-Drone-p-1266599.html?rmmds=mywishlist and the EMAX LS2206 2700 kv https://www.banggood.com/EMAX-LS2206-Lite-Spec-2206-2300KV-2550KV-2700KV-CW-Thread-FPV-Racing-Brushless-Motor-p-1204499.html?rmmds=mywishlist. It is kind of cool as I have been corresponding with EngineerX about this motor and the input he had with BrotherHobby in it's design. It is one of the "chunkiest" quad motors I will test at 2307 size, but looks like it might have some real potential on 3 and 4S. Here is EngineerX's test video of it as well.
[ATTACH=full]55135[/ATTACH]

The EMAX LS2206 2700 is at the other end of the spectrum being a bit lighter but having potential for some good power.
[ATTACH=full]55136[/ATTACH]
Here is another of EngineerX's test videos of this motor.


I also received some 5" props from Banggood to test on a few different motors on 4S
DALPROP 5045BN props https://www.banggood.com/2-Pairs-DALPROP-5045-Bullnose-PC-Propeller-CW-CCW-For-QAV250-ZMR250-Racer-250-Falcon-250-280-p-1056217.html?rmmds=myorder&cur_warehouse=CN

Gemfan 5045 BN props https://www.banggood.com/4PCS-Bullnose-5045-2-Blade-Propellers-2CW2CCW-For-250-280-310-Frame-Kits-p-985839.html?rmmds=myorder

and

KingKong 5040 props https://www.banggood.com/10-Pairs-KINGKONG-5040-Propellers-For-QAV250-p-1000415.html?rmmds=myorder&stayold=1&cur_warehouse=CN

Hopefully I will be able to find the right prop/motor/ESC combo to push this baby past the 100 mph mark on 4S


More to follow in the future, I'm also waiting on some 5" props from HobbyKing and some KingKong 6040 props https://www.banggood.com/10-Pairs-KINGKONG-6040-Propellers-CW-CCW-For-QAV250-RC-Multirotors-p-988179.html?rmmds=myorder&cur_warehouse=CN from Banggood that EngineerX seems to be getting some good numbers with on 3S on many of the quad motors he has tested.

Thanks again for the kind words and support, gents

Cheers,

Scott

My Son and I use a lot of these 3-Blade 5 inch DAL props on our racing quads with 2300KV Race Star motors. We have had good results from them and use them almost exclusively.

They also come in various different tips on the end other than the bull nose. Some we have been using are called cyclone tipped. They have a sharper more pointed profile near the end of the prop.

Four 2300KV motors on 4S, throwing four of these 3-bladed 5 inch DAL props at high RPMs puts out tremendous power on a 250-class quad. All four running up make a rather wicked chop sound.

At full throttle, straight vertical hole shot with these props and motors, the quad is out of sight in about 4 seconds.

We like ‘em, good props for quad racers for sure.

Interested to see what you come up with in your testing of these Scott.
And on the 8th day God said: "Go NAVY",.. and it was good! Pray like everything depends on God. Prepare like everything depends on you.
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e3_Scott
Hi Everyone -

I manage to get a good 4S test session done earlier today to test the 5" props linked in post #894 above. You can go right to the motor test spreadsheet if you want to see the numbers https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1KLR_wdkJ1OdGcf5f9jxxxU8qqmz_kXjMQH8NOLjW3NQ/edit?usp=sharing

Rather than fill this post up with a whole bunch of links, you can find links to all the motors/props/ESCs and batteries on the spreadsheet by navigating around, each motor has it's own tab along the bottom to help find what you are looking for.

I tested three motors today, the EMAX RS2306 2750 motor, the GepRC GR2306 2750 motor (so far the most powerful quad motor I have tested and flown on 3S) and the Racerstar BR2406 2600 motor which I think is the leading candidate for inexpensive efficient power of all the quad motors I have tested.

Unfortunately, the results with the 5" props was disappointing, I never came anywhere near close to the 1630 gr/57.5 oz of thrust I am currently getting out of the EMAX 2306 2750 kv motor and 6x3 EMP prop on 4S with any of the 5" props on any of the motors tested on 4S, so I don't think any of them is going to help me in my quest to get my modified Su-30 V4 over 100 mph. However, there is a nice surprise coming up later

First a bit on the props, here is a picture of the three of them together.
2018-05-19 08.06.24.jpg 
The grey King Kong 5040 prop is the most flexible of the bunch, however perfectly balanced out of the package. The Gemfan and Dalprop 5045s were about the same stiffness and both required a small amount of balancing. As you can see in the picture, the Gemfan prop is just slightly longer than the other two. The overall winner of the 5" props just based on thrust numbers seen (of course it comes with a pretty good amp penalty) was the Dalprop 5045 BN, but the 1470 gr/51.9 oz of thrust on the GepRC motor (which was the best result of all the 5" props) still falls well short of what I already have with the EMAX 2306 2750 and 6x3 EMP prop.

I tested the Racerstar BR2406 2600 motor with all the 5" props on 4S and it produced some pretty good power and did so very efficiently. I think it would leave the widest window of experimentation on 4S with varying pitches of 5" props compared to the other motors. I also tested it on 4S with the 6x3 EMP prop and saw some very good numbers for a 2600 kv motor. Test was done using the Turnigy AE-45A ESC (keeping on the budget theme as it is about half the price of the HobbyWing ESC I used with the EMAX and GepRC motors) with custom settings of 22.5 degrees timing and 24 KHz PWM frequency.

50% throttle - 16.8A/275W producing 797 gr/28.1 oz of thrust;

100% throttle - 43.8A/678W producing 1460 gr/51.5 oz of thrust.

I haven't been able to find a definitive amp limit number for this motor, from data tables I have seen 41.5A, but I think it will be worth field testing again as an experiment searching for inexpensive quad motor power for a park jet. I have been very impressed with it's performance on 3S, so that will be an interesting test on 4S with the 6x3 EMP prop

So, for the star of the show in today's testing, as I was testing the GepRC with the 5" props on 4S, I decided to test it with the 6x3 EMP prop as well as I had not done that previously. I used the HobbyWing Platinum PRO 40A ESC with custom settings of 26.25 degrees timing and 8 KHz PWM frequency like I have been using with the EMAX motor in my 4S flights.

50% throttle - 26.9A/429.1W producing 1040 gr/36.7 oz of thrust;

100% throttle - 60.3A/896W producing 1770 gr/62.4 oz of thrust.

Wow! This is the first time I have ever seen any motor I have ever tested produce more than 1000 gr of thrust just at half throttle.

I am a bit concerned about the amp number at full throttle as it is right at the very limit of the burst buffer of the ESC and about 15A more than what I think the motor is rated for :/ Although I don't normally like to do it, I will trust the theory that the numbers in the air are about 30% lower than on the bench and just see what happens. The plane goes so fast that my full throttle bursts are only about 5 sec maximum or I run out of real estate too quickly. The motor was warm after a five second burst at full throttle on the bench, but of course no cooling airflow like I should have in the air. So will about an 8% increase in thrust on the bench translate to at least 4% increase in speed in the air to push me over 100 mph? Only one way to find out, time to put the GepRC in the Su-30 V4, say a little extra prayer to the RC gods and see what happens

It does make sense why the GepRC although the same size is so much more powerful than the EMAX motor, based on the actual KV measurement from EngineerX's video below (KV measurement taken at about 10:40 in the video) is 2820 kv whereas I have read from two different sources that the actual kv rating of the EMAX 2306 2750 motor is 2630 kv.


Cheers,

Scott
Park Jet noise...the "other" sound of freedom😎
#ParkJetnoise #ParkJetpilot
Quote 0 0
e3_Scott
Hi Everyone -

I managed to get some initial bench testing done on the BrotherHobby EngineerX 2307 2700 kv motor yesterdayhttps://www.banggood.com/Brotherhobby-EngineerX-2307-1700KV-2500KV-2700KV-4-5S-Brushless-Motor-for-RC-Drone-p-1266599.html?rmmds=myorder&stayold=1&cur_warehouse=CN I just noticed the regular price is now $30.67 USD, when I purchased it, the regular price was $23.99 which is the current price on sale, not sure what is going on there, I certainly don't think it is worth $30.67 from what the bench numbers tell me anyway.
2018-05-18 13.28.13.jpg 
You can go straight to the motor test spreadsheet for the numbers here https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1KLR_wdkJ1OdGcf5f9jxxxU8qqmz_kXjMQH8NOLjW3NQ/edit?usp=sharing

I tested it only on 3S for now, starting with the 6x4 APC gas prop (link to all the components used in testing can be found on the spreadsheet above) and the numbers were nothing too exciting, but the amp draw was quite low compared to other quad racing motors I have tested in the same size and kv range. I had remembered a brief conversation I had with EngineerX on his YouTube channel that this motor was not perhaps for blinding speed, but should have very good torque, so I tested the 6x4 KMP/TGS/EMP prop which normally needs a little more torque to spin well. The top end thrust numbers were a little better, amps were still reasonable, so I decided to try the Gemfan 6045 carbon nylon prop and that really provided some good thrust, but with about the same amp draw as the 6x4 KMP.

This is one of the biggest quad motors I have tested thus far from a standpoint of stator size at 2307, but it is still pretty light, with the prop, connectors, etc ready to go in the plane, it weighs 48 gr/1.7 oz which is comparable to many of the 2306/2305 size motors.
2018-05-19 13.43.38.jpg 
Here are the numbers using the GF 6045 CN prop, the Turnigy AE-45A ESC with custom settings of 22.5 degrees timing and 24 KHz PWM frequency on 3S for this motor.

50% throttle - 15.7A/192.3W producing 635 gr/22.4 oz of thrust;

100% throttle - 39.4A/451.3W producing 1200 gr/42.3 oz of thrust.

Based on the amp draw to produce this kind of thrust, it is relatively efficient and from my experience testing the GF 6045 CN prop on other motors, these thrust numbers should translate well over to the field.

I hope to get some field testing with it within the next week

Cheers,

Scott
Park Jet noise...the "other" sound of freedom😎
#ParkJetnoise #ParkJetpilot
Quote 1 0
e3_Scott
Hi Everyone -

I just finished up some initial testing on the EMAX LS2206 2700 Kv motor https://www.banggood.com/EMAX-LS2206-Lite-Spec-2206-2300KV-2550KV-2700KV-CW-Thread-FPV-Racing-Brushless-Motor-p-1204499.html?rmmds=myorder&cur_warehouse=CN, sells for $17.99 USD at Banggood. Again, I just tested on 3S for now.
2018-05-16 14.24.54.jpg 
You can again go straight to the spreadsheet here for all the numbers and links to the components used in the testing
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1KLR_wdkJ1OdGcf5f9jxxxU8qqmz_kXjMQH8NOLjW3NQ/edit?usp=sharing

I started off with the 6x4 APC gas prop, numbers were pretty good, a bit better than the BrotherHobby EngineerX motor above, but the amp draw was higher. I decided to go straight to the Gemfan 6045 carbon nylon prop and the amps drawn didn't jump too much, but the thrust produced jumped considerably from about 1040 gr to 1270 gr

This is very good considering it is a smaller, lighter motor, weighing just 44 gr/1.6 oz ready to go in the plane.
2018-05-20 07.28.13.jpg 
As you might know from following this thread, I have been a big fan of the EMAX RS2306 2750 kv motor which has been an outstanding performer on the bench and at the field, so I am excited to see what this lighter motor can do, according to EngineerX's test video, it tested as a 2700 kv motor, which is a little higher than the 2630 kv that his gear measured for the 2306 2750.

Here are the numbers on 3S using the Gemfan 6045 carbon nylon prop and the Turnigy AE-45A ESC with custom settings of 22.5 degrees timing and 24 KHz PWM frequency.

50% throttle - 15.7A/190.1W producing 630 gr/22.2 oz of thrust;

100% throttle - 41.9A/480.7W producing 1270 gr/44.8 oz of thrust.

I have not been able to find what the max amp rating is of this motor yet, but considering the 2306 2750 has held up to some real punishment without too much heat build up or issues, I would suspect this LS2206 2700 should be able to handle the amps. Once I have a chance to fly it which I hope will be within the next week, I will know better, but it looks promising

Cheers,

Scott
Park Jet noise...the "other" sound of freedom😎
#ParkJetnoise #ParkJetpilot
Quote 1 0
XDmToter
Hello Again, Scott.

Do you have any flight video of the GepRC GR2306 2750 kv motor running on 4S? I see you have it listed in your spreadsheet with results from a bench test on 4S, but I didn't see any video of a 4S flight.

Planning on building another one of these in the near future:


The first SR-71 I built was running the NTM Propdrive 28-36 3000KV Motor, which weighs 87 Grams.
The numbers on the GepRC show more thrust from a motor that is over 60% lighter. Should be a beast.
Quote 2 0
e3_Scott
Quote:
Hello Again, Scott.

Do you have any flight video of the GepRC GR2306 2750 kv motor running on 4S? I see you have it listed in your spreadsheet with results from a bench test on 4S, but I didn't see any video of a 4S flight.

Planning on building another one of these in the near future:


The first SR-71 I built was running the NTM Propdrive 28-36 3000KV Motor, which weighs 87 Grams.
The numbers on the GepRC show more thrust from a motor that is over 60% lighter. Should be a beast.


I should have some video of the GepRC on 4S shot in the next day or two hopefully, it is a little beast, the most powerful of all the quad racing motors I have tested thus far

Cheers,

Scott
Park Jet noise...the "other" sound of freedom😎
#ParkJetnoise #ParkJetpilot
Quote 0 0
e3_Scott
Hi Everyone -

The field test session of the GepRC 2306 2750 kv motor on 4S in my RC Powers Su30 V4 "speed build" did not go exactly as planned, however, something positive did come out of it

Here is a bit of post incident video taken at the field.


As mentioned in the video, the bullet style prop nut I was using came loose, combination of me probably not tightening it enough and the torque of this beast of a motor helping to loosen it after about 6 good speed runs. In future, I will use the proper prop lock nut that comes with the motor for running on 4S.

Fortunately, the motor and ESC seemed to be OK, I was a bit worried about the very high (60A) amp draw I saw on bench testing, but I think the motor and ESC can handle it. I will put this motor and ESC in another plane and continue testing to see how it works after a few more flights on 4S.

I have new plans already back from the print shop, I will build it at the same size, it was very stable at this size and as mentioned, I did see a bit of torque roll with this more powerful motor, so I think if I downsized it even a little bit, torque roll will be an issue and rob me of some precious speed. 98.8 mph before the prop came loose, so I'm hoping the elusive 100 mph is achievable with this plane and power system if I build the same size and weight.

Cheers,

Scott
Park Jet noise...the "other" sound of freedom😎
#ParkJetnoise #ParkJetpilot
Quote 0 0
e3_Scott
Hi Everyone -

Was out putting some serious 4S action into the GepRC GR2306 2750 kv motor setup today

Obviously this larger Mig-35B is not as fast as the smaller, sleeker Su-30 V4 which will be built again in the near future, but this motor continues to prove that it is quite the beast on 3 and 4S. I ran it hard through about 4 flights on 4S with multiple high speed runs and full throttle climb outs, no problem whatsoever, no hesitation, just down to business As mentioned in the video, without a doubt this is the most powerful quad motor I have tested in my park jets and it seems to be able to handle some seriously high amps without too much trouble. Since I only have two 4S batteries, I was only able to do two flights back to back at a time, I might have been able to do a third if I had the batteries, other than that and I think it would be best to let the motor cool a bit or fly it on 3S for a flight or two.

I noticed today that Banggood has the 2750 kv motor under restocking (it also comes in 2450 kv), but with no expected date of restocking. I did find it available at Gear Best also, a little cheaper, but Gear Best would charge me a bit of shipping, so it works out about the same in the end. Here is the link to this motor on the Gear Best site. https://www.gearbest.com/motor/pp_1496940.html?wid=1433363

Cheers,

Scott
Park Jet noise...the "other" sound of freedom😎
#ParkJetnoise #ParkJetpilot
Quote 2 0
e3_Scott
Hi Everyone -

Second motor test of the day, this time with the EMAX LS2206 2700 kv motor, 6x4 APC gas prop on 3S. All the test data from the bench is available here on the motor test spreadsheet. https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1KLR_wdkJ1OdGcf5f9jxxxU8qqmz_kXjMQH8NOLjW3NQ/edit?usp=sharing


Respectable performance with this motor with today's setup, about the middle of the pack compared with several other motors I have tested over the past year.

As mentioned in the video, although the bench numbers were significantly better with the Gemfan 6045 Carbon nylon prop without a huge increase in amp draw over the 6x4 APC gas, the motor at times struggled to keep spinning the 6045 prop. I could hear the motor "laboring" somewhat at full throttle, especially on vertical climb outs when the motor was under heaviest load. The difference in top end thrust between the two props is about 250 gr/8.8 oz, but I certainly didn't think it was that much of a difference in the air. Maybe about a 10% increase in top end speed, certainly not about a 20% increase as shown on the bench. However, the 6045 prop caused the motor to run much hotter and as mentioned it struggled quite a bit to keep spinning the prop effectively under heavy load.

Cheers,

Scott
Park Jet noise...the "other" sound of freedom😎
#ParkJetnoise #ParkJetpilot
Quote 1 0
XDmToter
Thanks for the flight video and all the testing you do, Scott. I think that motor will be a perfect fit when I get around to building another SR-71.
I just can't get over the fact that you are getting more thrust from that motor than the NTM Propdrive 3000KV when it weighs 60% less... mindblown.
Quote 2 0
XDmToter
Have you ever put any of your quad racing motors to the test using an APC 4.75x4.75 prop? That has been my go to prop for speed planes lately. I have counter rotating 4.75's on my Flitetest SuperBee, and it is a screamer.
Quote 2 0
e3_Scott
Quote:
Thanks for the flight video and all the testing you do, Scott. I think that motor will be a perfect fit when I get around to building another SR-71.
I just can't get over the fact that you are getting more thrust from that motor than the NTM Propdrive 3000KV when it weighs 60% less... mindblown.

Sure thing For a plane like your SR-71 which has a very low drag profile, hopefully this GepRC motor setup on 4S will work well. I could certainly feel the drag difference flying this bigger 27" wingspan plane over the sleeker, smaller Su-30 V4.

The one drawback with some of the quad racing motors is although they crank out a lot of power, they do struggle producing enough torque to "muscle" through the drag caused by bigger planes compared to the NTM size and kv motors because they are physically so much smaller. But with a low drag plane, if you can save about 3 oz in weight over the heavier motor and ESC, it should really scream I have not tried the 4.75 by 4.75 prop yet, I might eventually get around to that, I have lots of other testing to get done over the summer as well as a plane or two to build to make up for some recent carnage

Cheers,

Scott
Park Jet noise...the "other" sound of freedom😎
#ParkJetnoise #ParkJetpilot
Quote 1 0
e3_Scott
Hi Everyone -

Did a bit more testing today


Now that I am almost finished up with the largest amount of testing of quad racing motors after experimenting for almost a year, I started another thread where I hope to consolidate more of the quad motor specific info like build considerations, motor choices, some of the best motors I have tested (if price isn't a big issue), the "middle of the pack" bunch which all tend to have pretty good performance and price and a more "budget oriented" selection. I will be doing more in depth reviews and summarizing my lessons learned in that thread regarding quad racing motors more often in the future so that finding the info is not as hard as reading through this more lengthy thread

You can find the new thread here https://rcpowers.com/community/threads/quad-racing-motors-in-single-motor-prop-in-slot-park-jets.22460/

Cheers,

Scott
Park Jet noise...the "other" sound of freedom😎
#ParkJetnoise #ParkJetpilot
Quote 1 0