Argonath Show full post »
winged_mule
Auuugh quit trying to cheer me up! We are many and they are few. I told you who is not your friend. They have taken over all the legislatures making us believe Roman Civil code is law our law form and control the Courts with uneducated police. They answer "I just do what my boss or the Judge tell me to do". I have been to Canada and South and more. There is no better place than here and no better People to live with than the good hard working People of this land. I have no problem meeting my maker fighting for your and our children's future here. Knowledge displaces negative fear....knowledge creates a different kind of fear that of what major misfortune you can easily rain on others or the deserving. God Speed.
Why are we still on wheels? Check out the lack of structure and very small amount of power to fly.
another big "Foamie" a WIG - wing in ground effect.
Quote 0 0
winged_mule
Add real power to this above design like a Mazda rotary at 150 hp. You would now have a ground attack vehicle that can bounce over tree lines and open fields/water and deserts. Behind available cover very fast and quietly...Not to mention very inexpensively.
Quote 0 0
Argonath
Quote:
Add real power to this above design like a Mazda rotary at 150 hp. You would now have a ground attack vehicle that can bounce over tree lines and open fields/water and deserts. Behind available cover very fast and quietly...Not to mention very inexpensively.


Maximum altitude of a Ground effect craft is +/- 50 feet at which point it begins to lose lift and becomes unstable in flight. Also, it's not designed as a lifter so you can't really carry anything with it without making it massive like the one the Russians made.

Also, I don't ever recall seeing this kind of craft over land and I believe that this only occurs over water but I might be wrong on that point.
D.I.L.L.I.G.A.F.
Quote 0 0
dtribby
Ground effect like that works with a smooth surface - calm waters being a good one. You couldn't guarantee smooth terrain like that on land, and even then you have very little maneuvering options. How would you even stop before hitting an unseen obstacle?
Yes, I've known that I'm "different" for some time now...
Quote 1 0
winged_mule
Anhedral /\ causes the destabilizing, it wants to roll over to dihedral \/. Flat is stable, air is air whether over land or sea. 50 feet up is ok by me, that is the bounce I suggested. hp over comes drag. flat plates fly well with large elevons especially in high alpha. The Wises craft exhibits a huge amount of lift and stability at very low speed and power input. Hanging it on the prop should be easy for the likes of us. Add speed/hp and large elevons to the Wises or I should say flaperons at the aft that would be raised up to more standard air foil shape to reduce drag at altitude. Add larger canards up front would also augment lift and stability. Twin v tail rudders would help without adding drag.
Mid ship power with the prop 25% under the wings or as twin nicells through a common slot will make the ship rise on the air cushion and makes quick and immediate high pressure reaction to control surfaces as we well know from our foamies. Add 3 little wheels if need be so you can push it into the garage.
Then fun is had all the while with it. Even taking it to the wide open...you would not need a trailer for it, if it is less than 8 feet wide that is. Just plug her into your trailer hitch by the nose and she would lift off the ground at 20 mph and follow you where ever you go and hardly get her wheels dirty! and no noisy rattle with every bump in the road! I can not wait to run it with FPV as a drone...
Whether you believe you can or whether you believe you can't...you are right.
Beware the man that shows you his underbelly... he just might enjoy drawing you into the strength of the plausible and unexpected. Be it good, bad or other wise.
Cheers Ya-All
Quote 0 0
Argonath
Quote:
Anhedral /\ causes the destabilizing, it wants to roll over to dihedral \/. Flat is stable, air is air whether over land or sea. 50 feet up is ok by me, that is the bounce I suggested. hp over comes drag. flat plates fly well with large elevons especially in high alpha. The Wises craft exhibits a huge amount of lift and stability at very low speed and power input. Hanging it on the prop should be easy for the likes of us. Add speed/hp and large elevons to the Wises or I should say flaperons at the aft that would be raised up to more standard air foil shape to reduce drag at altitude. Add larger canards up front would also augment lift and stability. Twin v tail rudders would help without adding drag.
Mid ship power with the prop 25% under the wings or as twin nicells through a common slot will make the ship rise on the air cushion and makes quick and immediate high pressure reaction to control surfaces as we well know from our foamies. Add 3 little wheels if need be so you can push it into the garage.
Then fun is had all the while with it. Even taking it to the wide open...you would not need a trailer for it, if it is less than 8 feet wide that is. Just plug her into your trailer hitch by the nose and she would lift off the ground at 20 mph and follow you where ever you go and hardly get her wheels dirty! and no noisy rattle with every bump in the road! I can not wait to run it with FPV as a drone...
Whether you believe you can or whether you believe you can't...you are right.
Beware the man that shows you his underbelly... he just might enjoy drawing you into the strength of the plausible and unexpected. Be it good, bad or other wise.
Cheers Ya-All


Ground effect means just that though, you need GROUND under you. Trees provide an uneven surface and wouldn't allow you to keep sufficient lift to stay in the air. You'd be constantly breaking airflow every time your tree height changed or opened up to a lower or higher canopy.

if I had to guess, I'd say that ground effect over trees would end up in a very brief flight followed by a very spectacular crash.
D.I.L.L.I.G.A.F.
Quote 0 0
winged_mule
Good and accurate point...remind me to inform the pelicans they cannot fly over land and trees.
Think about it,Wings are wings. Ground effect is an efficiency booster. True? Now look at the Alpha jet foamie an oversize delta box wing or modern biplane. Huge amounts of wing for extreme wing loading. Props placed for accurate slow speed control and in all facets of flight. Add to the lower wings trailing edge large flaps and sponsons on the wing tips for water and ground effect enhancement on demand and retract the flaps for high level safe flight. result 1 wing the upper always in flight mode the other in ground effect for efficiency when able easy as adding flaps for final approach as is now normal.
As with most single or 2 place a 9 ft. wing span would weigh well under 1000 pounds. Accident avoidance starts with staying aware (captain obvious visit) no trained monkeys for this machine!
several modes of avoidance are available:
1- Pull up hard with left or right as needed high alpha add full power retract flaps keep going up hopefully more than needed.
2- Push down hard, chop power deploy large speed brakes on top of the wings leading edges which will stuff it hard down to the ground, probably very hard. a nose wheel and 2 sponson wheels should have large caliper brakes on them and motorcycle knobby type tires for bite. 800 pound Motorcycle emergency stop from 60 mph is around 90 ft this should be comparable.
This mode can be programed into an emergency smash button in the cockpit.
3- Open water imminent crash event: Tie anchor around neck and leap from cockpit! Operator or machine are severely impaired. Possibly beyond repair.
I am currently 1/2 way into the modified Alpha jet project described above for proof of concept. A full size of 9ft wing span is about 180 sq.ft. of working wing area (most experimental's of foam and glass are much less wing area than that.) down into a model of 25% of full size.
A long, long way from the real thing. A picture and working model speak volumes to an aeronautical engineer to make final figures jibe.
I posted this thought for input. Thank you for your responses. They are valued.
Meanwhile I will tie them all up in Courts with injunctions and law suits for making you think Code [Roman civil Law] is the American Law . English law is the base. Which is simply no victim no crime or loss. Constitutional Law is for keeping the Government our servants in a tightly controlled box!
That is why the Second Amendment is so required to protect ourselves from the power we delegated to our servants. In and for times like this...
What do you mean, I can't buy parts for my projects!? Show me from the contract you signed and swore to, known as the Constitutions for State or Federal where I or we gave you that power to confine me when I have not shown the propensity nor, intend to do anyone any undo harm!
On a high note:According to the 1933 New Deal you have an account in your name worth millions to pay all your living expenses and it is being reneged on and you are being taxed unlawfully. A Birth Certificate Bond was floated on you with in 10 days on Wall Street from the Dept. of Trade and Commerce at 500 Water St. N.Y. City The Bankers went to that account to get your mortgage or student loans money. They made you no loan it was your sweat equity they went and got and now bill you for the use of your own life property/funds.
Cheers for our Founding Fathers incites to the human as a contriving animal. We were supplied with a stick to measure and to peaceably beat with when needed.
Quote 0 0
winged_mule
FYI a good source of alternative informed news
http://www.thedailybell.com/28717/Ron-Paul-The-Drone-Threat
Quote 0 0
Argonath
Quote:
Good and accurate point...remind me to inform the pelicans they cannot fly over land and trees.


Seriously? You realize that you're comparing apples and oranges here right? Birds have wings that permit them full flight. A Ground effect aircraft doesn't have that capacity. Go type in ground effect into youtube a pay attention to detail when you look at the crafts you see. ALL of them are without elevators, ailerons, flaperon, etc. They generally only have rudders and even then, most don't even have those. It's not designed to fly, it designed to work more like a hydrofoil without the foil.

Try this for an example:





Quote:

Think about it,Wings are wings. Ground effect is an efficiency booster. True? Now look at the Alpha jet foamie an oversize delta box wing or modern biplane. Huge amounts of wing for extreme wing loading. Props placed for accurate slow speed control and in all facets of flight. Add to the lower wings trailing edge large flaps and sponsons on the wing tips for water and ground effect enhancement on demand and retract the flaps for high level safe flight. result 1 wing the upper always in flight mode the other in ground effect for efficiency when able easy as adding flaps for final approach as is now normal.
As with most single or 2 place a 9 ft. wing span would weigh well under 1000 pounds. Accident avoidance starts with staying aware (captain obvious visit) no trained monkeys for this machine!
several modes of avoidance are available:
1- Pull up hard with left or right as needed high alpha add full power retract flaps keep going up hopefully more than needed.
2- Push down hard, chop power deploy large speed brakes on top of the wings leading edges which will stuff it hard down to the ground, probably very hard. a nose wheel and 2 sponson wheels should have large caliper brakes on them and motorcycle knobby type tires for bite. 800 pound Motorcycle emergency stop from 60 mph is around 90 ft this should be comparable.
This mode can be programed into an emergency smash button in the cockpit.
3- Open water imminent crash event: Tie anchor around neck and leap from cockpit! Operator or machine are severely impaired. Possibly beyond repair.
I am currently 1/2 way into the modified Alpha jet project described above for proof of concept. A full size of 9ft wing span is about 180 sq.ft. of working wing area (most experimental's of foam and glass are much less wing area than that.) down into a model of 25% of full size.
A long, long way from the real thing. A picture and working model speak volumes to an aeronautical engineer to make final figures jibe.
I posted this thought for input. Thank you for your responses. They are valued.
Meanwhile I will tie them all up in Courts with injunctions and law suits for making you think Code [Roman civil Law] is the American Law . English law is the base. Which is simply no victim no crime or loss. Constitutional Law is for keeping the Government our servants in a tightly controlled box!
That is why the Second Amendment is so required to protect ourselves from the power we delegated to our servants. In and for times like this...
What do you mean, I can't buy parts for my projects!? Show me from the contract you signed and swore to, known as the Constitutions for State or Federal where I or we gave you that power to confine me when I have not shown the propensity nor, intend to do anyone any undo harm!
On a high note:According to the 1933 New Deal you have an account in your name worth millions to pay all your living expenses and it is being reneged on and you are being taxed unlawfully. A Birth Certificate Bond was floated on you with in 10 days on Wall Street from the Dept. of Trade and Commerce at 500 Water St. N.Y. City The Bankers went to that account to get your mortgage or student loans money. They made you no loan it was your sweat equity they went and got and now bill you for the use of your own life property/funds.
Cheers for our Founding Fathers incites to the human as a contriving animal. We were supplied with a stick to measure and to peaceably beat with when needed.


Video / Pics please of this concept.
D.I.L.L.I.G.A.F.
Quote 0 0
winged_mule
Add a second wing with the trailing edge of one of those wings upper or lower fitted with a very large flap.
______ ----------\
---------\ or ------- \ raise the flap for clean air flight. the second version provides the air cushion while eliminating drag of a second wing while in flare mode. Check out the Flightcraft company in Sydney Australia They have a version, 2 place with Dacron fabric wings. Very light weight air frame.
Blow over backwards at speed is a serious life threatening event with flare craft.
Adding a morph-ability will give the safety back and removes the agility limitations for flight.
also a location for appropriate flight control surfaces.
Delta biplane:
http://www.parkjets.com/alpha-jet/

Quote 0 0
winged_mule
----------\ second version messed up on posting.
Quote 0 0